Raising Support
About the Author
Ben spends most of his time working with underprivileged kids in Tijuana, Mexico, encouraging them to continue their education. He's an unofficial member of Iglesia Bautista Monte Horeb, which runs the elementary school, Centro Pedagógico Didaque.
A couple of missionary blogs I’ve been following over the last year are coming to an end—or at least seem to be. Here’s the scoop:
Missionary Family #1: Appears to have been very well funded. On the mission field, they write about great trips and getaways with frequency. Recently they have permanently returned home for a variety of personal and spiritual reasons. They specifically asked their supporters to continue giving to the very end, as full support would be needed. They took a trip for several weeks on the way home that most Americans will never do or be able to afford. Now in the U.S. for just a month, they’ve purchased a home, picked up full-time, professional employment, and have just received their container of goods from their home overseas—must have been nice stuff to justify the shipping.
Missionary Family #2: Started the fund raising process five years ago. To date they are only at 60 percent. They’ve used up most of their savings and have cut back on expenditures. Due to the frustrations of a half-decade of emotionally trying support raising and the reality of still needing such a large percentage, these missionaries are considering returning to secular vocations. From everything written in their blog, they appear extremely genuine in their desire to continue serving in ministry full-time; yet the money has not come in.
Support raising is a touchy subject, and I try to avoid the conversation. The polar opposites are as follows: 1) Go after supporters with business-marketing techniques, or 2) Trust only in prayer that God will faithfully provide. Biblical arguments can be made for both. But regardless, every long-term mission trip requires funding (whether it’s from self or received from others). At least in the United States, money moves missions. If you’re at full support, you go; if you’re not, you continue the fund raising process.
There are natural salesmen and women, making it only obvious that their support will quickly roll in. But what about those who don’t emotionally stir the congregation? Those who don’t speak well up front or are not well connected in the pews down below? Are they doomed to stay at home? Many will say, “Well, maybe it wasn’t the Lord’s will,” or “Clearly they weren’t called.” But what happens if they just pack up and go without a sending agency or full-support? The same critics will cry, “That’s clearly going it alone,” or “That is not how missions is done.”
What should Missionary Family #2 do? I do not know. But maybe one idea is to send a support letter to Missionary Family #1.
August 13th, 2007 at 11:04 pm
LOL
Isn’t this the dilemma. I was one of those “Just pick up everything you have and go” as most, if not all of my family that is in ministry has done before me. So I get support (emotional) from my family in this . . .but the pastor of our church here in Ensenada doesn’t believe in “faith” ministry . . . .hmmm, and then there is my Hubby, who left a high paying job and jumped in with me and is now trying to sort all this out . . .
Gods conviction, is best I could say. God’s conviction.
Again, and again we just get back to the question . . .am I where God wants me? Am I in obedience? Then the rest is His. Really, God does let you know. I believe it can be a different answer for each missionary out there . . . cause He is THAT big.
August 14th, 2007 at 1:52 am
Support raising has always been a struggle for my husband & I for many reasons. One we believe and have always taught that missionaries on the field need to be involved in some sort of work to support themselves. This is taught in what is thought to be one of the oldest written documents about church life, the Didache(http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/didache.html), which states that if someone comes to you town for more then 3 days they should find work. It is also a way of getting involved in the culture. For example my husband lived 17 years in Spain. The Spanish are VERY hard workers and they would not feel good about someone coming to there are and not working in some way.
We have always believed that God knows our needs and there is really no reason to make them known to others. The truth is we have ministered all over the Europe & the U.S. and never really needed anything. Last year we ministered in 5 countries including 2 Eastern European countries who could not give us any support and at the end of the year we should earnings of 6,000 Euros. We have not had a home of our own for 4 years, we have no “retirement fund”. We just have the assurance that God will provide what we need.
I believe (just my opinion) that most missionaries take their materialism to the field. Just my opinion but I have seen it so many times.
Recently, we decided to try for the first time a “support raising” letter and it has been an absolute flop. Probably becasue my husband & I are not called to supprt raising. We are called to give our lives and we are doing it. In a few days we will leave for Germany, where we have been asked to make our base for the next few years. My husband will be teaching English and I will be starting a consulting business offering all sorts of Professional help for missionaries, churches and others. Between God’s help and our own hard work we seem to be able to give our lives in lots of creative ways.
Blessings,
Jeanne
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http://www.castillofuerteconsulting.com
August 14th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
This is an extremely difficult issue. I am also of the opinion that I do not ask people for money. But I do send out regular newsletters to inform prayer supporters of our work. Could this be seen as a subtle way of making needs known? Difficult question. I believe that people have to be informed of what is going on if we need them to pray constuctively. But there is also another way of looking at this matter and this is that I do believe that it was not God’s intention that missionaries should suffer day by day because of lack of basic things. Missionaries I know who really lived on the breadline for many years in Russia eventually developed ulcers because of this constant worry about money. Well, one could say that they should not worry. God will provide. Indeed He did. But this is easy to say when you have a large house and a good job, etc. If more churches start seeing missions as their priority, missionaries should be able to live in (relative) comfort without having to worry each month where money is going to come from and they will be able to get on with the work which God called them to do.
August 14th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
Michelle in Mx, thanks for your gracious comment. I was also a “pick up and go,” but I certainly now deal w/ your husband’s dilemma.
Jeanne, your first paragraph is quite thought provoking. I’ve pondered this idea many times, although it seems difficult and sticky in poor countries (not that I believe it’s unreasonable, however).
Arnau van Wyngaard, I agree, this is an extremely difficult issue. I also believe that God’s intention is not to have the missionary suffer daily w/ regards to basic necessities. But maybe it all boils down to one’s mindset and ability to trust (as you discussed).
August 14th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I find all the issues raised gives more to think about than reassurances. We moved onto the mission field with the blessing of our denomination to become the pastors at a small church that needed “serious help”. When we got here, we realized that the serious help they needed was our American Dollars to fund the church. So, although we are supposedly supported by the church here, the level of support is not enough for our family to realistically eat on. It is hard to live like the locals when they are in total poverty and you have children. I want to disagree with one comment, I dont think that Missionaries take their “materialism” with them, or they would never step out in the first place. No one moves to a third world country and thinks they are still going to “have it all”. The prospect of getting employment is an interesting one, perhaps that would work in Europe, where you are not taking away the only work available. But, poor countries tend to not give work based visas to outsiders unless you have an important skill to offer, like medical care or teaching. And who could in good conscience take away the only job that is open when there are 100’s or locals out of work and starving. So, relying on God is good, sending out newsletters is good, raising support through congregational visits is good. All things are good in Him who gives us the ideas, strength and abilities to do them. Last comment, we are not good at raising funds. We rely on God and have many stories about his Great Love coming through “just in the nick of time”. But, we also don’t just sit around and wait, we send out newsletters and communications with those back home and let God prick their hearts to aid us. We do our part, with in our abilities, so…I would love to have the contact information for family #1, perhaps they would like to read my newsletter. Blessings on all this day, wherever you are around the world.
August 14th, 2007 at 9:12 pm
Cheryl,
I have a lot of sympathy for what you experience and you definitely need a lot of wisdom on how to handle the situation. Although one would think that nobody would be so stupid to go into missions for personal gain, I have, unfortunately, seen this. Being a missionary in Africa (Swaziland) for the past 23 years, I have seen people come and go. Some of them come with honest convictions, but I have also seen people come, and I realise I may be judging, to satisfy their “wanderlust”. Recently a couple I know raised money by sharing a very emotional story about how they had been called by God to drive up into Africa to share the gospel. They needed a certain amount. Eventually this covered their costs to rent a vehicle suitable to travel in Africa and they went of on an adventure of their own. Certainly they are Christians and they may even have shared the gospel in places (how they did it without knowledge of the people, their language or the help of a local interpreter, I do not know.) After a few weeks they were back home again - “mission” accomplished (pun intended!)
But fortunately the majority do go with good intentions, sacrifycing tremendously in terms of comfort, but gaining so much in blessings from the Lord and knowing that you are where He wants you.
August 15th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
HI All,
I know I kicked up a huge hornets nest, but its something we all deal with. My husband found the type of people Arnau talked about in high numbers in Spain. He started tracking missionaries after being there 7 years. He found there were 3,000 missionaries in Spain, all having to gaurantee 1,000 euros a month, and only 10 of them were in the north. The rest are in Madrid, Barcelona & the south coast in balmy Majorca. I am sure many have good intentions, but I am the kind of person to do the math and come up with the fact that that is ALOT of money to pour into one small area of a country
I personally would like to believe people can hear God speak to them about missionaries needs. I don’t want to have to tell emotional stories or take a year off from what I know I am called me to do to twist peoples emotions. I do send out newsletters, but it’s mostly information and very little about money.
We have had many tough times. Living on 6,000 Euros a year is not fun! But God does provide.
We have had one interesting thing happen lately. Several times we have had prophecies, both written and spoken, say something to the effect of “God says you have not because you ask not”. Well our friends all thought that meant we should be asking people for money, but asked God what He was telling us. We felt He was saying that we needed to pray more about our needs and make our requests known to HIM. Then we got another prophecy saying exactly that.
I am in the process of starting a business that may give me and a few friends a little income. I have always been a networker so I think I have a way to make that make a little support for me. We will see.
Blessings,
Jeanne
August 19th, 2007 at 12:46 am
Hi, I am a missionary in the poorest of the poor places in the Philippines. Payatas. We determined to set a day and not a dollar. We did have an amount in mind and that was $2000 per month. We left with $550 per month.
Once we determined it was God’s ministry and we were just obeying orders, we saw how He worked. Our airfare and shipping of books (we gave away all other possessions) were paid by someone outside of the Church who saw our website. He was in the Arab emirates. If you go to our website: http://www.payatasbaptistchurch.org you will see miracle after miracle. One such miracle is I took 9 pills a day, high b/p high sugar and it would cost more than half our income just for medicine. Two weeks after we arrived I cried to God as I looked at my almost finished bottles of pills. I said God, I am sure you did not bring me here to kill me so then you need to pay for the meds or cure me but I am taking no more until I hear from you. One month late when checked out , I was fine, second month-fine. No more check-ups. I have accepted my healing. I then proceeded to lose 37 pounds. I have discovered a truth that you probably all know already. Just look up and say “which way Lord” and then follow. The rest will fall in place.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Dawson Trotman, founder of the Navigators used to say, in essence: “If you do not convert people to the Lord in your homeland, what makes you think you will convert them in a differen country and culture, particularly if you do not speak their language?”
I think the #1 cause why some missionaries get an instant support, so to say, and others do not is the people around them can see if they are missionaries at heart or not. If they are active as missionaries (telling unbelievers about the Lord) in their community, town, city, they will be active and probably effective in another country. And others perceive it quite well and will support some and won’t other missioneries.
And of course, what we wish sometimes is not what the Lord wishes. When he wants you to go you WILL go, because He is still in charge.
August 23rd, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Although I do believe a man who does not convert at home will not convert in the field is true, as far as the reason “V” says they don’t get support because they are not recognized as missionaries is very far from the truth. Paul got very little support and none from the other Apostles. It is very easy to give opinions without facts but the proof is “in the pudding” I received little support yet my first year here netted much fruit due to the Lord. If you don’t recognize that, perhaps your not familar with what a missionary looks like.
August 23rd, 2007 at 7:03 pm
I am actually a foreigner (to english speaking people) myself and worked as a missionary/translator for several years in my, now, ex-motherland. Pastor Jack I am sure you are doing a great job out there. I have no idea though why you threw apostle Paul into the mix because none of us can be even remotely compared to him: called by the Lord to service PERSONALLY, in a vision, during the time where there were no mission agencies or churches on every corner. Plus he did receive a lot of support. But this is irrelevant to what I was saying.
I do believe, firmly, that if you do nothing as a missionary (ministering to others, evangelizing, etc.) in your current country and community you shouldn’t even think about going out to a different land to do “God’s work”. You will only make it worse. Because the mouth speaks out of the abundance of one’s heart. If it didn’t speak here it won’t speak there.
To me it is clear as day. Sure people do great things on the adrenaline and the ego, but those things do not last. The fact is a large percentage of converts who found faith through foreign based ministries do not stick around in the churches. Once the foreign missionaries are gone so are the people. Because their conversion was not, as it says, “a regeneration of their minds”.
There are very few ministries, mission agencies out there these days who do their work out of pure motives. Some do it out of the fact that they have a program, others do it because they want to expand their denomenational beliefs, others do it because it seems as such a privilege to them, or still others do it because they get holy goosebumps when they evengelize the foreign pagans. Very few have been actually called by God.
I am not saying this against you pastor Jack. No, not at all. I am just saying this because I have seen this happening first-hand.
August 23rd, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Perhaps I have opened a box her but it seems like you have a dim view of missionaries and their abilities to serve the God that called them and also the authenticity of the confessions of faith they produce.
I think at this point it would be far better for me to request your website, and perhaps you might tell us your real name. (I hope it isn’t V) :) So that we can verify your credentials to speak as being one which has personal, hands on knowledge rather than a sophist.
Your first thery about those who don’t do it at home, won’t do it in the field, although not a hard and fast rule, perhaps is 90%+ true.
I would however be interested to see by which you base your facts for the rest of the conversation.
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Hi everyone!
I almost jumped into this conversation after reading V’s original post earlier to give kudo’s, though the dinner bell rang.
To start where I left off; excellent post V! If we are unfaithful in little, we will be unfaithful in much. One must first offer a cup of water locally to be able to satify global thirst. Not many Pastors started with more than a handful of congregants, unless they were inherited into the position. God causes the growth, one step at a time.
Pastor Jack, I have read your website previously and I am thankful for the work that you do for the body of Christ. Yet my first impression after reading your latest post was that you took V’s remark as a personal attack, though I may be out of line. V’s remark about people falling away after the missionaries leave is very accurate, not only in foreign land but here in the USA as well. Often times ministries are looking for a count to report back to their donors or home churches, somehow as a way to justify their actions.
I attended a church that was growing leaps and bounds for over 10 years. Once our membership reached 8000, we flatlined in membership. Weekly we had several dozens come up for the altar call, at times up to 100 each service, and we offered 6 services a week! For over a year we saw this, and our membership never increased. Why?
I believe that most people came through our outreaches, which are wonderful programs with great intentions, but they were only starting points. Our Pastor was great, the church was modern, and the place was comfortable, yet the size is what ate up all the opportunities for intimate relationship with our new guests. It is that fellowship, close knited bonding, seeing love in action after a confession or profession card is filled out, that moves inside the new believer that prompts them to either stay or want more.
After witnessing thousands of people “receive” Christ, I have witnessed thousands fall away due to lack of follow up, heading back to their sinful ways, being blinded once they walk out that door. This is sad, and should not be!
I am not sure if this is where V was coming from, but for those who are looking for commitment cards to satisfy their own personal accomplishments, their motives are questionable and, in most cases, quite dangerous.
August 23rd, 2007 at 9:52 pm
Hi Dan,
Although I know nothing of your background either and so it seems to me only as a thought on how you feel. Are you now a missionary? Do you have a site I can go to?
I ask this not as trying to be funny but I have people all the time saying things but never from a perspective of experience. I have one fellow that told me continually how he did things with “his people” as if he was the Pastor of a Church. Finally I asked him, “Are you a Pastor? Heve you ever been one or do you now have a Church? I make no apologies, I think it a great question. He now doesn’t speak to me because I called his bluff.
What you said about a Church that leveled at 8,000- Could be many reasons. the Pastor could have lost his first love, or the Church. The building only accommodated about 10,000 people and so it leveled at a normal 85% or so average. Or, the personal part of it died.
I am more interested in building strong individuals that will grow and cause others to grow. It seems to be working.
Yes, you are right that I took it (not really as a personal attack)as an attack on the ministry as a whole. I think if people are not speaking negative about God’s work they can’t get a rise out of people like me.
So, if you “witnessed thousands coming and going, please direct me to your site. I would like to evaluate your ministry and pray that God gives me something to tell you about improving it because He is able.
August 23rd, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Like Dan I have waited to jump in on this one. Unfortunately it seems we are “off topic” even though “V” had some good things to share. Maybe “V” is in a country where they don’t feel safe giving there name. I don’t think it benfits anyone to demand things from others.
I am VERY wary of people (pastors usually) who continue to say someone is not reliable because they do not know them. It speaks to me of wanting to be in control. I could be wrong, but in my case our website is listed above and you can read our background. I will not respond to someone either who is abusive and attacks rather than discusses. Thankfully it is also NOT mans job to “evaluate my ministry”. We have submitted our ministry to several men of God who know us and don’t spend there time attacking other ministries on the internet, but have known us over 17 years and have the relationship and permission to speak into our lives.
As a ministry we have focused on small groups and house churches for just the reasons you stated. I have been in 2 large Churches and experienced exactly what you described. For that reason I prefer to focus on small groups & what I would call “simple church” or “house church”. The problem is that they usually don’t provide alot of support. It’s harder to take up an offering from 10 people then 10,000. But this is what God has called us to do and we see him working in a mighty way. We have seen 300 healings of everything from Aids to all types of cancers and people raised from the dead because people had the relationship of a small group. These have all been verified by the persons doctors and independent doctors. The biggest thing we see is people make a committment to Christ and then grow in that relationship at explinential rates because they get the care and discipleship needed.
Just my 2 cents worth of rambling at 5a.m.
Blessings,
Jeanne
August 24th, 2007 at 6:11 am
Nice post Jeanne. As a matter of fact, signs and wonders (such as healings) are a very good indicator that God is at work through a missionary/ministry. It’s the Holy Spirit that awakens the dull minds of the unbelievers, not our words only. I actually think our words awaken very little. We think they do, but we do not see the huge work of the Spirit behind the scenes. So more power to you.
Sorry to the blog owner I kind of get this thread off the topic, I guess. My apologies.
August 24th, 2007 at 6:15 am
Hi Pastor Jack!
Thanks for your response. As I stated previously I had attended the church mentioned above; I was not on a payroll nor was I signed up as a volunteer. I did, however, offer myself as a prayer partner, a source of fellowship, a shoulder to cry on and an ear to listen; a word of knowledge, a word of encouragement and a reader of Scripture.
As far as legalities are concerned, my family still holds a membership and, we, on random occaisions, give offerings as we feel lead to do so. This is no longer our home church, for we have moved.
Hi Jeanne, thanks for your response as well. Like you, my family has seen wonderful things take place within small groups. Many local churches here have ‘cell groups’ for that very purpose. In groups as these you will find such wonderful fellowship and constant prayer for individual needs. Within them you may find intimate friendships where you share your deepest, darkest thoughts and secrets, things unconfessed to spouses and family. This, in my eyes, seems to be where the chain that bind break, where the weight is lifted, where the healings flourish and the love overflows. Praise God for that wonderful fellowship!
I have no issue with big churches as a whole, I just believe that many fall through the cracks, and those folks happen to be the most vulnerable; the shy, unloved, insecure, the feeble. These are the folks that turn to drugs, alcohol, bad friends and influences in their search to feel loved. And it is these people who get hurt by ministries that are seeking a number to report to those they are accountable to financially.
In a sense they are like the kissing bandits.
Even more off topic, I have a question that relates to the effects of short term vs long term missionaries:
Which ministry will have a greater impact; one who drop ships 5000 gallons of clean water to a village once a year, or the one who hand delivers 13 gallons of clean water every day?
Thanks for your time!
August 24th, 2007 at 6:34 am
Hi Dan,
I have no problems with big churches, I just see more signs and wonders when people are cared for in the smaller groups. As for your question. I believe the ministry that is there every day is the one that will have the most impact. How do I offer my shoulder to cry on when I am only there once a year?
Hi V,
I pray I can share the gospel and at some times use words. It is God who builds the house not us.
Blessings,
Jeanne
August 24th, 2007 at 8:01 am
No offense taken, V.
Although nice to see so many comments, I think we’ve spun into one too many offshoots. We’re clearly off topic. If you feel the necessity to clarify anything else, please do so with care.
I find it interesting that this article written about raising support (money) has received far more comments than any other we’ve posted. Is this what makes us tick?
August 24th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Hi Ben!
I don’t believe money is what’s making us tick, but rather our desire for more posts from you. Thanks for your canvas! ;)
Dan
August 24th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Thanks for your response Jeanne. BTW, This is what I keep getting when I try to go to your site:Firefox can’t establish a connection to the server at http://www.healingcommunities.org.
August 25th, 2007 at 4:11 am
It is not “what makes me tick” but it is an issue for us. If I have more support I can do more. Because I give away 90% of what we get, more support means I can help more people.
Pastor Jack, I hve no idea what the problem would be. I don’t like Firefox and I don’t use it. Maybe try another browser.
Jeanne
August 25th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Hi Jeanne,
Well, I finally was able to get into your site. I think it is the very slow connection here in the Philippines.
Anyway, it seems like you have encounter groups where people can unload their problems and can get support from each other. I may be wrong, but I don’t see anything that suggests it has anything to do with a church other than it is a non-profit and the word Christian is mentioned. there is no mention of non-denominational or of a specific denomination nor do I see any testimonies of people getting saved.
I will admit that I have not gone through the entire site but I did cover a large amount. I see mentioned you have a Psychiatrist on board and I don’t know what that is about as most Christians will agree (many non-Christians also) that there is no basis in science for psychiatry.
Do you have one of these groups in the U.S. that someone could visit or is it just in Europe?
I don’t want to appear like I am discrediting you, I just am interested in how Jesus is promoted within your group as there are no indications in what I read. Perhaps is people could see the relationship, they would be more apt to support you.
August 25th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Hi Pastor jack,
Thanks for your comments. I had to laugh at the idea of you discrediting anyone. Forgive me but you keep talking about “not knowing someoene”. We don’t know you at all and for that reason your cursory reading of my website means very little.
We have house churches. Most of the people who meet in house churches are complete churches. The idea of “encounter groups” made me laugh. Institutional pastors seem to find all sorts of way to mis name house churches so that don’t call them churches. Anyway, the difference between house churches and “institutional churches” is that when a church becomes around 20-30 people they will divide into 2 groups. this organic multiplication is why there are so many groups.
Also, you are wholly wrong in the idea that there is no science in psychiatry and any thinking person will know that. But what I really find funny is your total misreading of the website. My husband is a PSYCHOLOGIST!! not a psychiatrist. he is a PhD who when he was practicing full-time spent his time bringing healing to children under the age of 5 who had been severly sexually abused. He has over 35 years experience helping people from the most severe abuse situations. Most Christians would agree, my husband among them, that secular PSYCHOLOGY while scientific is often far from helpful. It is for this reason that over 20 years ago my husband together with Christian counselors and ministers working with him, developed the approch that we call Focused Compassion Therapy. This wholly biblical method has been responsible for bringing healing, wholeness AND SALVATION to thousands. One of the first steps of which is the question “Do you know Christ or are you seeking Him”. That we choose to work through house churches shows our committment to radical Christianity in the helping process.
We do not have numerous testimonies on our website is because we respect the confidentiality of the counseling room. It is interesting to note that in recent years at least 3 books have been published which give details of healings & testimonies within Healing Communities. However my testimony is on the website!!
I must laugh also at your last comment. We are known for our emphasis on the Word and on Jesus to heal. Your last comment shows your lack on understanding.
We do not normally allow people to visit our groups on a “tourists basis” and a load of rubber necking tourists would be counter productive. If you are serious about wanting to see how we work you can come to one of our conferences. You can also visit our soon to be open center in Essen Germany.
Blessings,
Jeanne
August 25th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
Really, I do not think that this discussion is to the glory of God anymore. Had I been the moderator of this group I would have stopped this discussion.
Arnau van Wyngaard
August 25th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
V,
Forgive me if I have offended you. I believe I have simply answered the questions put to me.
August 26th, 2007 at 12:07 am
I think your right. I just tried to find out what this group was all about and I got bit. You know what they say, “A hit dog always hollers”.
Anyway, with the obvious lack of giving glory to God, showing salvations, etc…does not suggest a Church.
I have been in a house Church (One of my best experiences) and it grew into a larger Church. Over here, I started two house Churches and it grew into our present Church. I wasn’t saying anything bad about you. I made an observation by what I saw on your site. Forgive me if I saw it differently than you have tried to portray it but I am sure that anyone who goes there will see the same thing.
By the way, Psychiatry does not pass the 5 point test and never has so it is impossible to call it scientific and everyone knows that.
As far as Christian counseling and helping those that have been abused through using the word of God, wonderful. No one is criticizing that kind of work.
I guess all I am saying is your site does not portray a Church, a message of salvation or suggest that anyone can go there and hear the word of God preached. (After all, even fringe churches have preaching) they also have doctrinal statements.
Good luck with what your trying to do. If you want to speak further on the subject I would be glad to. Only email me personally.
August 26th, 2007 at 8:26 am
Hello everyone!
Before this fades away I would like to add my thoughts, hopefully not adding fuel to the fire. Early in the discussion I noted that Pastor Jack seemed offended, which he admitted to taking it as an attack on his ministry. Following that, he attacked Jeanne’s ministry, questioning it’s validity. Regardless of these, we all have the same purpose here, and that is bringing glory to God and doing His will.
We are all different people with differing ministries. Although I do not have paper that claims my ministry, nor a website or tax free status, but what I do daily with the people I work with is my ministry. Can we, as vessels, some made of gold and silver, some made of clay and wood, stand in agreement that we all serve a purpose somehow?
When we offer that cup of cold water, will Jesus ask us why we used the wrong cup? Is it the cup itself, or the content?
Personally, I would not start a church in Ontario, simply because I am not called to start one there. If I had unlimited funds to start any ministries I desire, I would be building houses and churches in Baja, empowering the pastors and leaders in those communities to serve. I would drive a VW Vanagon camper, fill the back up with Bibles and pass them out up and down the entire Baja region, and invite the people I touch to the churches in their area.
Would that be your type of ministry? Probably not, except for maybe a few here. Would my ministry have any value? Of course it would, even without a website with a statement of faith posted and a donate button.
Hopefully we can understand the importance of all vessels, stop devouring one another and encourage each other in our ministries.
August 26th, 2007 at 9:58 am
HI all,
Just a short note. I am a blonde trying to learn PHP. It is not working well…LOL I have recently converted my site to Wordpress. I made all my pages private but I had links in my articles page. Then when people went there the page was blank. Well I think I have fixed it.
If anyone knows about Wordpress I could use some help! *grin*
Blessings,
Jeanne
August 26th, 2007 at 11:03 am
I have to agree w/ Arnau. This discussion has become an embarrassment. My wife gave birth to our first child yesterday, and I am just now checking back.
In my comment two days ago, I wrote: “If you feel the necessity to clarify anything else, please do so with care.” Clearly Pastor Jack, you have not followed my advice. In the future, if you have an off-topic, personal disagreement w/ another commenter (especially w/ regards to THEIR website!), do not post your feelings on moneymissions.com.
August 26th, 2007 at 11:09 am
Hi Ben,
Again my apologies!
Also, Congratulations! Does this first child have a name? Women always want the details you know.
Blessings,
Jeanne
August 26th, 2007 at 11:16 am
His name is Rhys (pronounced Reece). Good looking, healthy, 8.5 lb kid!
August 26th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Congrats Ben!
August 27th, 2007 at 8:57 am
Missionary Family #1 is the family just leaving and he was a doctor, right? I think he probably had some good savings and then he has returned back to the US and is working again as a doctor. You know they make good money there!
We have been on the field for four years now. First, in Nicaragua, and now we are in Mexico. We are not run through a missions organization, though we have a tax-deductible covering. Our church sent us out and now we are under the authority of our church here in Mexico. It’s much more feasible this way, our pastor is with us on a daily basis and we are able to not be “lone rangers”. The organization we are with (a Mexican organization) gives us free housing (nothing at all fancy), no power or water bills, all our food during the workweek, and they are working on getting us health insurance. It’s a blessing to our supporters to see that the Mexicans have taken ownership of our ministry. Do we still need outside support? Absolutely! We have no savings whatsoever due to some issues in Nicaragua, and we have some debt that we didn’t have four years ago, but we go forward. Just last month we lost a supporting US church, and it cut our income by 25%, but we are trusting that God will provide and we are also having to be much more disciplined in our spending. That means not going out to eat on our day off, maybe not going to the movies with our kids, and not going into the city as much. I know we have been spoiled, so we are working on living more like a typical Mexican where we live.
August 27th, 2007 at 9:27 am
I have a question. It may need to be another thread all together. I would like to know if any of you are doing successful tentmaking of any kind on the field. I am not interested in multi-level amrketing, but real tent-making or work over the internet. I am in the process of starting a consulting company. I am still working on the website for it.
Jeanne
August 27th, 2007 at 9:37 am
Jeanne, I don’t think I really have an answer for you, but invite you to have a look at my blog. I was intending to write something about tentmaking tomorrow - so unless if something comes up that I seriously want to address tomorrow, you may have something to think about. My blog is http://missionissues.wordpress.com/
September 8th, 2007 at 7:39 am
Friends,
This conversation seems to have died out but I wanted to throw in one last thought. Whether a missionary asks God or supporters for finances, the U.S. and “western” church NEED to give their money and resources. There is no other way to be freed of materialism, consumerism, etc. So, it is a ministry of mercy to western believers to be relieve them of their earthly riches.
Serving with you,
Joel
October 5th, 2007 at 11:56 am
Hi, Just found your website and enjoyed reading the many comments on raising support.
We are called to sports ministry within the US and are finding it extremely hard to raise support.Any comments?
Serving Him with joy!
October 5th, 2007 at 8:41 pm
Butch, We had a commenter back in April named The Aesthetic Elevator. He has had a tremendously difficult time raising support for ministry in the U.S. as well. His website, http://mfund.wordpress.com/ , discusses his thoughts during this process.
December 17th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Just found this site and haven’t had enough time to look through everything but, I like others are one of the “pick up everything and go in just a few minutes” I look forward to reading more of what is said here.
Be blessed
May 14th, 2008 at 5:43 am
Just found this site. Is it still active, as there are no posts this year? Except for the bickering a while back I think this is still a topic of interest to many. (Could be the “bickering” says far more about support difficulties than anything else.)
Blessings
May 27th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Pastor Ed,
This site is still very active! The last post was from only a month ago.